1) Why do you think the Radak would have expected Bnei Yisrael to understand the connection between the drought/other difficulties and the rebuilding of the Beit HaMikdash. If there was no Nevua, why would we even expect them to see the relationship?
2) How should we, today, interpret world events? How are we supposed to know if and when HaShem is sending us a message?
a) Read "The God Who is Revealed Through Historical Events: Rav Kook, Rav Amital, and the Interpretation of History" by Moshe Maya - http://www.vbm-torah.org/alei/14-04maya-history.htm. What is Rav Amital's perspective (s)?
b) Read "The Religious Significance of the State of Israel" By Rabbi Yair Spitz (he was in Memphis for a few years) http://ytyh.org/lesson/4. What is Rabbi Spitz's criteria for seeing G-d's hand in history?
c) What is your perspective?
1) I think Radak expected the people to see the connection between the problems around them and the rebuilding because the people already knew what they had returned for. They returned to rebuild G-d’s house, so it should have been clear that when things start going wrong, G-d is trying to tell them something. Their faith in G-d should have made them notice the problems around them as things that only G-d could cause so clearly there must be a reason for them. The reason should not have been hard to figure out because they returned to Israel to build the Beit Hamikdash, so obviously G-d wouldn’t be too happy if they were to stop building which is what happened. Their sheer faith in G-d should have led them to realize what G-d wanted from them.
ReplyDelete2) Today, interpreting world events is much more difficult. It has been thousands of years since we’ve had Nevuah and known for sure why certain things are happening and what G-d wants from us. The only thing we can really know is that everything G-d does is part of His plan and has a reason behind it. When something happens that benefits Israel or humanity in general, we should be able to assume that G-d is rewarding us. When things go wrong, we can say that we are being punished, but it is too hard now to say why or what we should do about it. All we can do is continue to follow the Mitzvot and try to be better Jews/people.
3) Rav Amitel says that it is possible to see what G-d is telling us to do by looking at world events. He says that a person who does not try to interpret world events and find their true meaning is like a dead person. Human eyes are able to see the Divine meaning of events if we look at things with prophetic vision.
4) Rabbi Spitz sees the Jewish history as something that redefines our identity and experiences. His criteria for seeing G-d in history as as follows: timeframe, setbacks, spiritual level, and leadership and expectations.
5) My perspective is that G-d does control nature and everything that happens, so there must be a reason for natural disasters or sudden rewarding occurrences. The hard part is interpreting them and finding the true meaning. I agree with Rav Amitel, but I think his view is a bit extreme. If I don’t actively search for the meaning of all current events, it’s like I’m dead? I think that’s a little extreme but I’d like to believe that G-d is trying to speak to us through the current events. When things are going well, we should thank G-d and feel that He is like a parent telling us we did well and He is proud of us. When things aren’t going well, we should feel the push to be better Jews and show G-d that we are willing to improve and follow in His ways.
1) I think Radak said that they should have started to rebuild because if they would have continued to build to build, they may have fixed the relationship with G-d that they lost in their many years of Galut. The people were only allowed to return to Israel after being thrown into Galut for many years so that they could rebuild the Beit Hamikdash. They were given a chance to connect again, to return to their homeland and make something of the Jewish people again. If they didn't rebuild again, they may never recreate that relationship with G-d.
ReplyDelete2) Today, we have no proof of anything, and sometimes that can be what makes it so great. If a person has the ability to believe with no proof, it shows how committed they are with the religion and how strong their belief in G-d is. We have no one telling us that is a sign from G-d, we just have to believe it. It is in the big moments, like Hashgacha Pratis moments, that we truly realize that G-d is there looking out for us and making sure we are safe. When you get that moment where something bad should've happened but something changed for the good, that is when a person can truly "see" G-d. There will still be no solid proof until the day that Mashiach comes.
a) Rav Amital says that a person needs to look at everything in two ways, in the simple way and in the deeper understanding of the event. Being able to look further into the understanding of the events is how you will be able to understand G-d's actions. It is beyond what is hidden that shows us the reality.
b) Rabbi Spitz says that history is put in 4 sections: timeframe, setbacks, spiritual level, and leadership expectations. When you split up the events in these 4 sections and you really look into what is going on in that event, then you can understand it.
c) In my opinion, G-d has his way of running this world. We follow His path, and that is how life works. I am not saying we don't have free will, though. We can choose our actions, good or bad, but they will be set in stone. Once you do something, you can't undo it, it will become part of history. I think that people can learn from what our ancestors did, their good and their bad actions. Our history is who we were back then and it led to who we became today.
1. It wasn't the Nevuah that would have told them not to build the Beit HaMikdash. It was a disaster that happened on its own. A navi didn't tell their enemies to attack and stop building so this would be the same type of difficulty that a drought would have a brought. It made it difficult for them to settle in Israel and start believing in Hashem again.
ReplyDelete2. We are not suppose to know when Hashem is sending us a message because that is part of the mystery of Hashem. When Hashem wants us to know what he does he will send Mashiach or an Navi.
3. Rav Amital and I have very different views on how people can see the acts of
G-d. He does think that you can see the acts of Hashem through world events and if you don't try, you might as well be dead.
4. Rabbi Spitz says that we must look at the truth in the world to find what G-d does. When we look at truth we finally see change on a communal level of Judaism.
5. I think that these are all good opinions and I have no doubt that G-d has plenty of involvement in the world, but I don't think that we can physically see it. As I said above, He will let us know when He wants us to see his actions, and until then we must just have faith.
1) In the past, droughts and other harsh conditions have almost always been a punishment for doing something wrong or a push to do something that was not being done. The only thing that really could have shown the need for a push to do or not do something was their failure to rebuild the BHMK as they had been told that they would by the nevuah when they first went into exile. Also, Hashem told them at the very beginning, as we say every day in Shema, that if we follow His commandments, He will "give rain for [our] land at the proper time, the early rain and the late rain, and [we] will gather in [our] grain, [our] wine and [our] oil. And [He] will give grass in [our] fields for [our] cattle, and [we] will eat and be sated." If we do not follow Him, however, He will "close the heavens so that there will be no rain and the earth will not yield its produce, and [we] will swiftly perish from the good land which the L-rd gives [us]." It's pretty clear that theres no rain, so . . .
ReplyDelete2) This is kind of complicated because I want to say that we should be interpreting them the same way that the Jews we're learning about should have, but now many people say that we should NOT interpret world events like that. Maybe as time went on and we got further and further from actual nevuah and seeing Hashem blatantly in our daily lives, it became less and less about us picking up on things in that way. Maybe we shouldn't expect Hashem to send us a direct message for us to pick up on, but to rather make things happen that nudge us along subconsciously in one direction or another. Maybe we need to keep evaluating ourselves and just do the best we can. Maybe we're too far gone to actually realize when Hashem is talking to us? It sounds really bad, but if you think about it, would YOU believe it if G-d was trying to send you a message?
3) Rav Amital says that we need to look for a deeper meaning in the events that take place and in the history of the world to really understand. If we just take in the superficial instaed of the deeper meaning and higher level of understanding, according to Rav Amital, we might as well be dead for all the good it will do us.
4) After reading the responses that other people have left, I'm kind of tempted to change my answer, but I'm pretty sure that the characteristics Rabbi Spitz uses to see Hashem in history are not the 4 categories he first mentions, but 3 he mentions later: truth and historical perspective, broad and proactive halachic decision making, and our attitude towards the mundane. I think he says that only by looking at history and the world through these categories can we hope to clearly see the hand of Hashem in our past.
5) I think that Hashem IS here always, and He DOES want us to do the right thing, but I also think that He leaves it up to us to actually do it. I think our job is to learn about our past and to learn FROM it as well. It often seems to me that history tends to repeay itself after a not-so-long time, so we need to learn from the mistakes of those who came before us, and apply it to our own lives, whether or not we get a sign from G-d.
1. Perhaps it's because they had lived in a time where they had the BHMK and saw how successful they were. Then they got kicked out of the land, but they would expect that when they got back they would have the same success as before. When they realized that they were having difficulties they should have realized what was missing from before - the BHMK.
ReplyDelete2) We should look to the Torah to interpret world events. We should look to our past and see things that are similar to events going on today and see what happens. However, it's more difficult when there are events drastically different from those that have happened in the past. We don't really have a way of knowing when G-d's sending us a message for sure - it's up to every individual to believe what he believes - because religion is a personal thing.
a) He says that people are able to see what G-d is trying to tell us by looking at the world events. He even says if you don't do so then it's like you're dead. Humans are able to see the deeper meaning of things.
b) He sets up a way for us to see G-d in history - timeframe, setbacks, spiritual level, and leadership and expectations. If you look at what's going on in each stage then you can understand.
c) I think that as humans, we're different than G-d, we can't understand everything that he does. We can look at any event in our lives and say that we do or don't see G-d. I don't think there's one specific way that we can see Him in our lives: every single person has a different way to approach G-d. It's up to every person to look to our history and look to our present as we see it - each person has a different perspective of life as it is and our history. Therefore, I don't think that there's one specific way we can say to interpret world events.
1) Radak thinks the Jewish people should have realized they were being punished for not rebuilding the temple because that was their purpose in returning from exile. They failed to accomplish the things they were sent back to Israel to do. Even without nevuah, they should have realized their actions were resulting in consequences from G-d. They should have realized that the sudden changes were a direct result of their actions, because such changes would not just happen naturally out of the blue. It should have appeared to them as a clear sign from Hashem.
ReplyDelete2) a) He thinks that even today we should look at the world and the events that take place in it and search for G-d within it. He believes it is like you are dead if you are living your life without seeking out G-d in the world. We are able to see the deeper meaning of the world and the presence of G-d if we look harder.
b) He wants us to see G-d’s presence through different aspects of our history: timeframe, setbacks, spirituality, and leadership and expectations. If you take each aspect and look into it deeply, G-d can become clear to you.
c) In the modern world we do not have regular, clear signs that we can interpret as coming directly from G-d. Of course we do not have nevuah from G-d either. This is one of the major challenges that faces the Jewish faith today. The challenge is to see the presence of G-d in the world around you and realize that although he may not make Himself clear and present to you, He is still there. Because most are so disconnected from Judaism today, G-d does not make himself clearly present to us because we are not faithful and are not on a high enough level to have such interactions with Him. Although it is difficult, all we can do now is try to see the presence of G-d in our everyday lives and connect with him through Torah and mitzvoth.
1) The loss of nevua was a new phenomenon. Even though nevua no longer existed, they were still very close to that time period. The older generation especially, but also the newer generation, should have still realized that everything happens for a reason. Throughout the ages, obvious environmental hardships such as droughts have been known to be a sign from God. They shouldn't need a prophet to tell them this. Without a prophet, they still should have been looking for signs and thinking about how their actions have consequences.
ReplyDelete2) The Torah should always be our guide to influence our perspectives on the world. We should always be viewing things through the lenses of Torah learned-Jews. Therefore, when we look at world events, we should always think about how this falls into place in relation to the Torah. I'm not saying that God is always sending messages through natural disasters and other happenings, but there must be some times... The difficult thing is is that we don't really know when God is sending us messages these days. We can just do the best we can within the realm of our understanding and remember to not lose faith because we can't understand certain things.
a) Rav Amital seems to think that there are ways in which we can see what God wants from us by looking at the world around us. He is very adamant about this proposal, and says that if we don't do this then it's as if we are dead. We should be constantly looking for the deeper meaning in the world and the presence of God. If we can't find it, they we need to be looking harder.
b) Rabbi Spitz wants us to see God in history. Jewish history is something that redefines our identity and experience, according to this Rabbi. He has a certain criteria for seeing God in history: timeframe, setbacks, spiritual level, leadership and expectations. Through these guidelines, we should be able to understand what's going on in the world, and where God plays into things.
c) This is all very difficult for me to comprehend. On the one hand, I started off by saying that the Jews should have realized that the reason they had a drought was because they weren't following God and they should have realized this and changed their ways. On the other hand, I'm also saying that these days, it's really hard to see where the hand of God is. These ideas seem to be contradictory. Well, they are. I guess I'm very conflicted over this matter. I think it's important for us to live our lives connected to the Torah values. I think that we should always be cognizant that there is something going on- some overall reason for things. But I don't know how to cope with bad things. Why do bad things happen to good people? Is everything about sending a message, or do some things just happen? Maybe God just interferes in extreme cases, but in most instances lets things go by as usual. But still- why could something like the Holocaust happen? I think it's safe to say there are some things that are beyond our understanding, and we shouldn't let them bog us down.
1. I think that Radak expected Bnei Yisrael to understand the connection between the drought and the building because of the unique situation in which the people returned to the land. After the destruction of the first Beit Hamikdash, the people returned to the land. Not only did they return, but they returned to rebuild the house of G-d. With that background, even without the help of Nevuah, the people should have been able to intuit that these events were signs from G-d. Certainly, since they had Chaggai to guide them, there was no excuse for them not realizing that the drought was a sign from G-d. I can certainly understand the Radak’s frustration with the people. The signs seem so clear in hindsight.
ReplyDelete2. Interpreting world events as signs from G-d is a risky and tricky business. Today, two thousand years since we had a Beit Hamikdash or nevuah, it seems pretty impossible that any Jew would be expected to look at world events as signs from G-d. If we follow Radak’s interpretation of how we should be behaving, then we probably should be looking for G-d in these events. However, because we have been so far removed from G-d for so long, trying to interpret the events will lead us into dangerous territory. Without a navi, how do we know that we’re right or wrong? The answer is that we don’t and won’t know if Hashem is trying to send us a message.
a. Rav Amital says that it is perfectly possible for people to interpret world events as signs from G-d. In fact, it is an obligation for people to try to find G-d in these events. According to Rav Amital, humans have the capacity for prophetic vision and should definitely use this capability. If people don’t use their eyes to look for G-d, it is as if they are dead.
b. Rav Spitz claims that Jewish history can be analyzed by using four categories: timeframe, setbacks, spiritual level, and leadership and expectations. By using these four categories, people can certainly understand what kind of messages G-d is trying to send us. Understanding G-d’s messages redefines our identities and plays a major role in shaping the Jewish future, especially in the land of Israel.
c. My perspective is, honestly, that I don’t know. I totally agree that G-d controls the world and that G-d’s hand can be found in everything. However, this whole situation gets complicated when you suggest that regular humans should behave like prophets to interpret events. Yes, I do very often look for G-d’s hand in events that seem to have a purpose. We all know this as “HP Moments.” In those moments, we certainly do look for G-d’s hand in our lives. We interpret the events as messages from G-d. I have absolutely no problem with this and I would even encourage it. However, when people suggest that mankind should be looking at events like the holocaust and interpreting them as signs from G-d, the line must be drawn. Without a proper navi, our interpretations can get very skewed, so we have to be careful. In short, small events are fine to interpret but larger world events should be interpreted with caution.
1. I think that they should have seen this connection clearly. They had just been allowed to return to their land. Miraculous and unusual things were happening all around them- surely they didn't think this was a coincidence? They must have suspected that God was orchestrating this wonderous turn of events, and that he may have been trying to tell them something. Also, they had Chagai to steer them in the right direction, so it seems odd that they did not pick up on this.
ReplyDelete2. Interpreting world events today is totally different from interpreting them as signs from God in the days of Nevuah and a Beit Hamikdash. We are unfortunately lacking in both of those, and so we have no clear cut way to determine of anything is or is not a sign. Determining if something is or isn't a sign with certainty can be dangerous. However, it is a possibility that we can still find signs from God in our lives today. There are people in Israel who believe that when bad things happen there, it is God delivering them a direct message. Today, we must evaluate the situation carefully and see if something more than coincidence or chance can be at play, and be open to the idea that this is not a certain practice.
a. Rav Amital says that by analyzing world events, it is possible to see God's signs. People should try to see God through occurrences in the world around us; in fact, not only is it possible, but we should do so.
b. Rav Spitz says that by analyzing and categorizing Jewish history in to four different groups, only then can we have an idea of what God is trying to communicate to us. Timeframe, spiritual level, setbacks, and leadership and expectations are the four important sections. These help define us, and as such they are necessary components in order to fully understand what is going on, and what God is hinting at.
c. I am undecided on this. I see merit to the different sides of this situation. I think that sometimes it is clear to us what God is hinting at, and then sometimes it isn't, and we aren't even sure if He is or not. I think this is how it is supposed to be. In this day in age, God's miracles are not totally revealed and we do not have a direct, clear connection to him. He is sort of hidden behind the scenes, and this is purposeful because we are not ready for everything to be revealed yet. I think that If everything were in black and white, things would be too obvious. We are not at the point of "total revelation" yet. However, He is still looking out for us, and is happy to provide a shove in the right direction at times when it is necessary, by giving us a clear sign. I don't think that everything should be interpreted as a clear sign, because I don't think that is what they are- if God meant for us to "see the world clearly," then we would know, instead of having to guess.
1. G-d often sends us reminders of why we don’t have the Beit Hamikdash in our generation. We learn over and over again that baseless hatred was the reason the Beit HaMikdash was destroyed yet, does this top us form talking Loshen Hora-slander about each other? Do we really think everytime we say a nasty word to another Jew we are preventing the rebuilding of the Beit Hamikdash? G-d therefore has no choice but to remind us of why we don’t have a Beit Hamikdash by sending us punishments in different forms. Do we even pay attention to these punishments and say they are reminders? Usually not. Instead, we give “natural” excuses for punishments. Even though there is no “Nevua” in our days, we have to be blind not to see the truth.
ReplyDelete2.Hashem is always sending us messages. Whatever happens in the world has a Jewish connection. The connection is not always clear. Sometimes it becomes clear later, when something else happens. If we would ask our Rabbis to explain to us the connection they could probably help us interpret it.
a) Rav amital says that you should look at the world in a different way. Don’t just look at things that happen and not realize what the true meaning of it is. Anything that happens is something for us to look at. There like letters with messages being sent to our door step. If we don’t pick them up, see them and internalize them then we missed the point of them. Look at everything as a message and internalize it.
b) c) Rabi Spitz believes that there are messages throughout our history. We shouldn’t just look at our history and time line of events as simple boring things that don’t have any meaning to us. Or things that where only relevant then. But as a messages for us. We should look at what happened in the past and internalize it and change ourselves. Learn from what happened in the past.
c) e) My perspective is that everything that happens is a message from god. If there is an earthquake somewhere around the world it has to do with me. However I don’t think it is our job to go and throw the blame on a specific thing that people do, or that a group of people do. A few years ago there was an earth quake and I heard a rabbi speaking. He said “the reason why there was an earthquake is because of gay men and us allowing them into our society”. I was so upset and mad at this rabbi, and still am. I used to respect him and like him but he lost that all from me. I don’t think it is the job of anyone to place blame on anything. We for our self and a nation should know that what we do does have an effect on the rest of the worked. We should realize that when something good or bad happens there is a reason behind it. Don’t ignore those signs, they are there for us. But don’t go and come up with reasons to why things happened. Don’t blame others for why things happened. Look at yourself and what you can do better to please g-d.